Thank you Noah for the reply. People’s opinions on Ellsworths seem to be more polarized than any other brand I can think of; people either love them or detest them. A primary barrel and a slider … Cars typically have different suspension systems for the front and rear axles with each axle providing mounting for two wheels on opposite ends. The bike is an AM bike by the way. Someday, I can get my hands on an Ibis mojo, my dream bike and I would be very happy but sometimes, I keep asking myself, Is it really worth it? On the Nomad and the Tracer, I think the trade off is mid-stroke support. Sometimes when people write these I think they assume everyone is an engineer or physicist. On both the Knolly and the Yeti, you can essentially look at the suspension linkage as two parts: there are links that control the path of the wheel as the suspension compresses, and there are parts that compress the shock. There’s a reason Kona doesn’t make these anymore. opinions ;). These days, however, there are a relatively small number of designs that make up the vast majority of the market. Which is why I’m starting to put together a post series dedicated specifically to suspension types. Vite ! But the best will always a subjective criteria. The rear wheel – rear triangle of the bike is connected to the rest of the frame via a rotating joint with a shock absorber 3. (and which bike to get) Jump to Latest Follow ... a Santa Cruz Chameleon hardtail for a couple years now and will be passing that bike onto my son and moving onto a full suspension bike. Recumbent bicycles with suspension are an exception and often employ rear-only suspension. So-so traction, bump compliance,braking performance, not to mention loss of energy due to suspension movement when pedalling. Now we delve into suspension design, and how different companies try to achieve the “holy trinity”—how to make a suspension system that (1) absorbs bumps, (2) isn’t affected by braking, and (3) lets you pedal uphill without wanting to kill yourself? Rear axle is on the seatstay, with a pivot slightly in front of and below the axle. Is there a consensus yet on the best climbing dual suspension setup? I owned a Felt Redemption for a while, which is a bit longer travel than most of the Felts on the market today. At their heart, both the DW Link and KS link are more or less parallelograms that move the rear wheel slightly rearward at the beginning of its travel, and then more upward further into the stroke. Noah… Thank you again for your reply. I could be just used to riding it all these years, but it felt better with the old spring shock and mechanical Judy c fork. There are numerous types of mountain bike including long-travel dual suspension bikes for downhill racing; hardtails with suspension forks for general trail riding; fat bikes with low-pressure, super-wide tyres; go-anywhere dual suspension trail bikes and short-travel bikes for mass-start cross country races. Characteristics These touring-specific bikes are designed around long-distance bike travel, making them very capable at handling heavy loads on all types of terrain. After all, isn’t it just coils, spring … The Balance and Riot use a different design, Canfield Balance Formula, patent #US 9,061,729 B2. That’s not to say it doesn’t matter, it’s more to say that you’ll be fastest and have the most fun on the bike you like best, which isn’t necessarily the bike that has the “perfect” design. I know its like comparing apples to oranges but the bottomline is, there’s no suspension design that works best for each facet of mountain biking. Like Lance mentioned in his comment, the Jedi’s linkage is designed to achieve a bunch of rearward travel – when the suspension compresses, the rear wheel moves backwards (as well as up). Most suspension forks have a fundamentally similar design these days. It doesn’t appear to fit any of these categories? On the upside, this makes dealing with pedaling forces a lot easier. How much do suspension forks cost? Thanks for this. What do you think about Diamondback Knuclebox? Any full suspension bike you come across will be a mountain bike. But it has good mid-stroke support and it doesn’t get crushed on bigger hits. I noticed this feeling in my brief time on the Tracer, and I’ve noticed it on the older Nomad. They basically have the upsides of a high single pivot (good wheel path for bump absorption), but with some of the downsides fixed (less chain growth). I’ve only had a very brief parking lot test of the new Nomad, which isn’t really enough to draw any conclusions, but that feeling seemed less noticeable in the couple of minutes I was aboard the bike, at least compared to the Tracer. Just so many designs and theories that I am getting dizzy. I am thinking about a new bike so I went to all the bike shops around. Pros: It does a good job of absorbing large bumps; no patents on the design (and therefore less expensive to build). Like I mentioned above, all of the current Canfield bikes are generally based around a dual link design that’s vaguely similar to a DW link in terms of layout (2 links, both rotating in the same direction). If I was going to spend all day pedaling uphill on a ~6″ travel bike, these three bikes would be high on my list of contenders. I think the patent on the FSR is now expired, so companies can produce FSR-type designs. That is except for the yeti. There’s so many variables, and some really minor changes can make a big difference. I was looking at the Motobecane Hal6 from bikesdirect. It’s a short steep and heavy bike that needs to be replaced but not sure if I will like one of the budget options. Most front and rear mountain bike suspension will have a single adjustment for rebound, however some will have both high and low speed rebound circuits. By using larger diameter tubing at the top, the inverted forks gain fore-aft stiffness. Though the Epic technically features just a single pivot point, it has “flex zones” built into the stays that sort of allow the system to act like a four-bar design (see below). The amount of suspension travel available has increased over time. The Jedi is a very unique bike in all the ways you mentioned, especially radical rearward wheel path. Are you curious about all the different bike frame types you’ve seen? For example, look at the rearward pivot location (the one near the axle) on an Ellsworth Epiphany vs a Specialized Enduro vs. a Norco Range vs. a Rocky Mountain Altitude. And you said that they are not the only design that pays attention to ICT, then why the love it or hate it status? Particularly when I’m trying to pump the suspension or pop the bike off of a small lip, I feel like the platform drops out from under me. What could you say about the round tube turner DHR’s I know that they’re a single pivot, but they’re not a true single pivot, I think they called it a “modified single pivot”. Thanks!! The main idea there is to more efficiently get the rear wheel out of the way of bumps, and by all accounts, the Jedi does that really well. I haven’t ridden any BMC’s, but based on the basic linkage layout and the numbers on the suspension kinematics, I’d expect them to ride somewhat similar to a DW link bike. Keep in mind that this is a very generalized discussion, and there are quite a few variations on each of these different designs. Pros: Decent bump compliance; no patents on the design (and therefore less expensive to build). Pros: Pedals well; does well under braking. The Yeti “switch link” suspension design (used on the SB-66) is somewhat unique. Cons: Still not a particularly efficient pedaler; patented design costs a bit more. So a short travel DW link bike that’s intended for XC racing is going to look and feel quite a bit different than a long travel DW link bike that’s designed for DH. Almost every bike not in the two categories above will fall into the four-bar camp in one way or another, and many brands have patented their own variation of this design. Legs are indeed very good suspension, but they don’t work quite so well on some of the smaller bumps. Just like compression damping, this refers to how quickly the suspension returns to its full length. - Telescopic suspension (upside down) Rear suspension: - Spring loaded hydraulic suspension. Also, thoughts on the mountain cycle battery frame? Also keep in mind that each design can be tweaked to fit the needs of whatever discipline it’s being designed for. Linkage forks, while offering a few benefits, have pretty much gone the way of the Dodo. This design is easily recognizable because it features a pivot on the chainstay as shown in the diagram above. I hear you; there’s so many designs out there that look interesting, but it’s hard to find a way to swing a leg over more than a small fraction of the options. I climb and descend on a four bar with an average rear shock, it an be very difficult. In terms of efficiency, I’ve found these designs to pedal very well. How does it work? The Mach 6 is a DW link, so to some extent it’s the odd one out. The amount of suspension on a full suspension bike can differ greatly depending on the type of riding that you are doing. First, there’s no patent on the design, meaning brands don’t have to pay anyone royalties to us… It also has a link that connects into the shock, but that link doesn’t directly impact the path that the wheel travels – it’s there to give the desired leverage ratio on the shock and to stiffen up the frame. In the former … Découvrez l'offre Bike Shock Absorption Suspension 650Lbs Tige de selle ressort Tube de vélos Seat Type bicyclette 1959 pas cher sur Cdiscount. I stick to mostly green and blue trails for most of my riding. Some bikes will absorb bumps better, some will brake better, and some will pedal better. As long as you’re not on technical terrain, you can opt for a gravel bike (no suspension fork), which is probably the most versatile bike type available, and you’ll be able to take on road, off-road, gravel, dirt and a vast range of terrain types. … In reality, no such technology exists. Like which is good for what and so on? It was a light bike but flexy, yet I’ve used it till i got another one. So since it’s more or less impossible to achieve that holy grail, companies will prioritize different traits. I always enjoy reading about suspension design. But the trade-off is that inverted forks tend to be much less stiff torsionally. Thanks for all these amazing explanations. The Latest Surly Disc Trucker long-distance touring bike. And that’s also ignoring the fact that modern shocks are getting to be pretty damn good, and they can help minimize some of the downsides that otherwise sub-par frames might exhibit. Incidentally, the older Diamondbacks that had a more triangular linkage piece and a vertical shock orientation also fall into that same category. That difference really just come down to what the company is trying to achieve with their leverage ratios for each bike. For now, I’m just going to list a few of the most common rear suspension types. A full-suspension bike is a bike that has both front and rear suspension. Like forks, most rear shock designs are fundamentally similar. Cons: Similar to DW link, sacrifices some bump compliance; patented design means it’s more expensive to build. But don’t take that to mean that they’ll necessarily ride like a DW link bike; there’s way more to it than that. DVO 6. Firstly used in the off-road motorcycles of 1970s and 80s, these gave a benefit of increased rear wheel travel due to which they were highly accepted. I did have to rely on pedal platforms, like the pro pedal in the RP fox shock and lowering the compression setting on the epicon shock to make difficult climbs work great. The shock is compressed via a series of links and pivots. Would that be a DW link suspension? MRP 4. Much appreciated. Just to throw out another brand that hasn’t come up yet, how does the YT Capra’s suspension design compare? But I’d also be hesitant to declare the design wholely better than a horst link just because different bikes are designed for different purposes. This isn’t a problem for straight up plowing, but it makes the bike feel a bit less lively. Does their slightly different pivot locations make their Horst Link better or worse? From talking to people that have spent some time on a Jedi, it also sounds like the rearward axle path takes a bit of getting used to in hard corners – as the bike compresses into the corner, the rear end gets significantly longer, which might feel weird to someone coming off of a bike that keeps the rear end relatively short throughout its travel. Platforms that are great in one area will suffer in another, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a design that feels perfect for your individual needs. Sometimes they are also called the dual suspension bikes. Arguments about which design is better fill hundreds of pages of internet chat rooms, but of the two major fork manufacturers (Rockshox and Fox), Rockshox makes only one inverted fork (the XC-oriented RS-1) and Fox makes only upright forks. That linkage does, however, serve an important role in actuating the shock – the shape and location of those links will determine what the leverage ratio on the shock is at any given point in the shock’s travel. Let us not forget that rear shock technology has gotten better through the years to the point that almost any suspension design has offers a solid ride due to the quality of the rear shock. The longest running thread!! by Sean White. Linkage Driven Single Pivot (example: Kona Satori). “he KS link drives the shock directly with the rear triangle, whereas the DW link bikes generally drive the shock with the upper linkage arm. I am looking at getting an enduro bike and really want to understand suspension designs from a factual/physics point of view instead of relying on what marketing materials claim. Retrouvez toutes les pièces pour l'entretien des fourches et les accessoires. Is that a VPP? The BMC APS linkage definitely has a lot of similarity to DW link bikes – they’re both using relatively short links operating parallel to each other. Is this a matter of those bikes being around 2K and the yeti at 5K or is it their design? Single pivot designs are common among entry-level bikes for a number of reasons. But like I said, it’s tough to get a really good idea of how a bike will ride just by looking at numbers and graphs on paper. Full suspension is any bike with … How much suspension for my type of riding? Linkages, shown in green, are used to connect to the shock. Chercher moto. The general premise was good; a bike that will act like a short travel xc bike on small hits, but was also able to swallow large hits when needed. All i can say is that, both bikes handled suspension wise remarkably well. There is no holy grail; it’s all a matter of trade offs. The local four bar bike with the Epicon had a ridiculous top tube, the chainstay is longer than most and the wheelbase is longer too. Over the years, there have been all kinds of interesting suspension concepts out there that try to achieve a good balance of the three ends. And are different suspension designs just a way of achieving the objectives just a way of getting around patents of superior performance or are they really necessary innovations? This type of damping controls the rate and speed at which the suspension returns to its full length after having been compressed. All forms of suspension, from the simple Single-pivot used by Orange bikes, Yeti’s innovative Switch Infinity or the wild R3ACT platform used by Marin and Polygon, share the same purpose – to allow the sprung mass (rider and most parts of the bike) to move forwards while keeping the wheel tracking over uneven ground. Let us consider in more detail what the rear wheel shock absorbers can be, and how the frame design changes for them. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. How different or same is the Niner CVA suspension from these others. Similar to the linkage driven single pivot, the FSR link has a modified axle path that leads to slightly better bump compliance and better braking abilities. Thus all my questions. Cane Creek 7. I have learned a lot from your site. Can you kindly shed some light on the pros and cons of these two? A Quick Guide to the Types of Bikes: Road Bikes – Lightweight, efficient bikes with drop handlebars and narrow tires, for recreational riding, mostly (but not exclusively) on pavement. Pardon my ignorance but why is Ellsworth the most polarizing bike if their suspension design is not that extra ordinary or revolutionary? Evil Bikes utilize a linkage-driven single pivot design as well. I demoed the Nomad for a couple hrs at Grand Targhee resort, I did an uphill lap and it did good (1X10shimano) then I went for the lift service to ride their DH trails and it felt good but like you said…”the suspension tune is particularly critical” and a couple hrs were not enough to get the real feel. Notable brands that use dw-link include Pivot and Ibis, and the design is known for a solid pedaling platform with more anti-squat early on in the travel. So, at it’s heart, it’s pretty similar to that linkage driven single pivot on the Kona Satori, but the configuration of the linkage is obviously quite different, and the DHR gets the job done with fewer links. There are a few other companies that are building “dual link” designs that are similar to the DW link and VPP bikes. How about Mongoose’s freedrive and GT’s new I-drive (basically the same as the freedrive) I’ve always wabted to try those and comoare them to my La pierre’s FSR. I haven’t spent a ton of time on any of those bikes, but of the three, I’ve spent the least time on the Nomad. Famed suspension designer Dave Weagle’s dw-link was a precursor to Maestro, and Weagle was locked in a legal battle with Giant for about a year before eventually dropping the lawsuit. But the performance jump from a $2000 bike to a $3500 bike is less significant, and generally speaking, the higher the price tag goes the less significant the performance increases become. Thanks in advance Noah. It is just any bike that only has front suspension. Thanks for the excellent article and Q&A. Bike Frame Types, Demystified December 27, 2019 Bikes Gazelle CityZen. At the most basic level, rear suspension involves one or more pivots that (1) allow the rear wheel to move up and down, and (2) push on a rear shock. In fact, I am also interested in all other manufacturer’s designs. There isn’t any design (at least none that I’ve found) that does a perfect job at absorbing bumps of all shapes and sizes while still remaining fully active under braking and that isn’t affected by pedaling forces in any gear. This really helps the bikes pedal well, but the transition past that platform often feels a weird to me. 14th July 2016. I would also add that, while those three attributes are what a suspension designer is considering on a fundamental level, don’t forget that there are quite a few other factors at play (cost, patent issues, weight, stiffness to name a few). The cannondale moto carbon however, it was a small and I fit a shorter stem, a wider bar so cockpit wise, I was comfortable. Mono Shock Absorbers: … That’s a tougher question – it’s an awesome bike without a doubt, but once you get into higher end bikes, the performance differences gets increasingly narrow. A hardtail is not really a type of mountain biking. I found the information here very helpful so Thank you sir. This has got … A linkage-driven single pivot design still features a swingarm (shown in red) that pivots around a single point (hence the name, single pivot), giving the rear wheel a circular path. Single pivot designs are common among entry-level bikes for a number of reasons. A high quality shock from fox or rockshox can improve my ride for less. Rear suspension is only seen in mountain bikes which offers dual, both front and rear suspension. As for the Zen, that one isn’t entirely unique but its different from the Battery. Well, to start with, the Nomad and the Tracer are both VPP designs, so they at least share some basic similarities. The exact link layouts are a little different though. All of the older DHR’s were linkage driven single pivots. ride like an XC bike but descend like a DH bike. admin; December 21, 2017 ; Tips and Tricks, Trailers; Plant trailer,suspension,Trailers; The Breakdown: Trailer Suspension . What are your thoughts on the new 2015 updated switch infinity suspension on the Yeti SB6 C? Is it any good? With lots of XC single track, fire roads, some family rides, etc. Bars – stem with an in built shock absorberThere are some other types of suspension, but they are not com… Am now looking into the article about how good/great shocks can transform a bike… to confuse me some more! Finding the right balance of those three traits for a given bike is what frame designers are trying to do, but different people riding in different locations will have their own priorities. Split pivot is a 4-bar design. The reviews seem to be pretty good but I know a lot of technology goes into proper frame design. While the exact traits are going to vary quite a bit from bike to bike, my experience has been that the Niners tend to pedal fairly efficiently, and have slightly better small bump sensitivity than some of the DW link bikes. Issued this year and shows how to achieve the “Holy Grail” of pedaling efficiency. It’s still a high single pivot at heart and it’ll retain many of the characteristics of a high single pivot, but it’s got a bit of linkage that actuates the shock that provides a changing ratio as the suspension compresses. FSR link (example: Specialized Enduro). VPP (example: Santa Cruz Nomad). On many of the VPP bikes I’ve ridden, there’s a fairly distinct platform where the suspension seems to stiffen up. I am currently using the latest Epicon RC rear shocks available from suntour and no dont shrugg just yet, hehe It actually offer fantastic small bump compliance for the money paid and considering that it offered compression adjust is another plus. But yeah, there’s no substitute for riding lots of bikes. So the rear end pivots in a circle around a single pivot that’s just above the bottom bracket (the same basic pivot location as the Kona Satori in the article). Definitely agree that suspension has gotten way better over the years – with a modern shock, the most inefficient bikes still pedal pretty well. Trailer suspension – 4 different types.. but which one??!! Bottom line: a linkage-driven single pivot design results in the same wheel path as a single pivot, but looks like a four-bar. There are basically three goals of rear suspension: (1) The suspension needs to do a good job of absorbing bumps. But there are quite a few frame designs on the market today that use different configurations to actuate the rear shock. Hahahaha! When I was growing up there was no suspension on mountain bikes, these days most have at least front suspension. I guess the short answer is: no. We covered some basic concepts and definitions in our first Suspension 101 article, so you should now know the difference between a full suspension and a hardtail, and you should have a pretty good sense of the amount of travel you want in your bike. As for ride quality, the couple of GT’s and Mongooses that I’ve ridden have felt a bit less supple than some other designs out there, but that should be taken with a large grain of salt. As to why I was specifically asking about Ellsworth… well from your article, not much was discussed about their (specific) suspension design and I have ridden a couple of Ellsworths and want to understand their suspension design logic. Independent front suspension ; Twin I-Beam Suspension System; Single I-Beam Front Suspension System; Independent Front End Suspension Using Torsion Bar; Parallelogram Type Independent Front Suspension ; Struck and Link Type Suspension System About Us | Personally, I find that the bikes I like best aren’t always the “best” suspension design. Bike brakes cantilever. im starting to dig your website. I know that the best way for me to decide which bike to get for enduro purposes will be to try them all. High Pivot Hijinks with the Deviate Highlander Trail Bike [In... Fox Live Valve is an Electronically Controlled Suspension System for... Watch: Pivot Firebird 29 Enduro Bike, Long Term Review. However, there are many other brands on the market with some more boutique than others, or just specialising in rear shocks only, you may come across the following; 1. Knolly obviously uses some additional linkage to actuate the shock, which (as far as I can tell) is how they avoid infringing on the FSR patent. (3) Braking shouldn’t affect the suspension, either. For a lot of customers, trailer suspension is often something not always thought about. BOS 8. Suspension types. A single pivot that is usually a few inches above the bottom bracket (often lined up with the outer edge of the largest chainring). I haven’t spent much time on the Canfield full suspension bikes, so I can’t really comment on how they ride. Company   Or maybe you ride a broad range of trails, so you need the best balance you can find. Hope to see more content, reviews and maybe enduro or trail tips in the future! This introduction to our frame types will help you discover the perfect frame match for you and your riding lifestyle. Egalement appelé « mini moto », « moto de poche » ou encore « moto miniature », un pocket bike désigne une moto à taille plus réduite que celle que'on connaît habituellement. The Jeffsy uses this same linkage layout, but the Tues drives the shock off of the swing link. I briefly road their Auron fork and, while it wasn’t quite as good as some of the higher priced offerings, it definitely held its own. And I wouldn’t over think it too much; there are lots of really good bikes out there, and all things considered, the differences between them are relatively minor.”, ” it’s more to say that you’ll be fastest and have the most fun on the bike you like best, which isn’t necessarily the bike that has the “perfect” design.”. I really like the kona magic link bikes. I own 2 bikes a Trek ’08 remedy 8 with 2014 suspension (pike & monarch plus) and components (xx1DT, guideRSC,150mmLevTi) sweet set up and a DH Ventana El Cuervo (a tank), I’ve been riding these bikes for 6 years (slc-PC,UT), now I’ve got my eye on the Nomad with CC DB air CS or Custom Santa Cruz Nomad Rear Shock by The basic pivot layout is similar to a horst / fsr link; there’s a pivot on the chainstay just in front of and below the rear axle, and there’s a rocker arm that actuates the shock. Types of motorcycle suspension: Front suspension: - Telescopic suspension. When you’re comparing two bikes with similar geometry, wheel sizes, and travel, the real world differences at race pace are probably going to be measured in fractions of a second. (legs are best suspension right?!). Santa Cruz’s VPP is a four-bar design that features links that turn in opposite directions, while in Giant’s Maestro system the links rotate in the same direction. On the other hand, there are also quite a few people that 1) found the frames to be prone to breaking, 2) found the frames to be flexy, 3) found that Ellsworth’s customer service was less than spectacular, and/or 4) found that Ellsworth’s somewhat over the top marketing spiel and blatant bashing of other designs to be lacking tact. Common Full Suspension Bike Types. The Kona magic link bikes were an interesting experiment that, in my humble opinion, are best treated as a brief lapse in judgment from Kona’s engineering department. If you’re all clear on the different approaches to suspension design and are interested in fine-tuning your ride, read on to the next article in our suspension series: Suspension 201: Anatomy of a Suspension System. Both of these four-bar iterations connect a rigid rear triangle to the main frame with a linkage. It does, however, present a couple of challenges, the first being that a rearward axle path means that the chainstays effectively get a lot longer as the suspension compresses. And about Kona’s Magic Link. The upside is that all three of those bikes pedal pretty well. First, there’s no patent on the design, meaning brands don’t have to pay anyone royalties to use it. Trek puts its “ABP” design on most of its full suspension bikes. I have a 2000 GT i-Drive and it has held up great all this time. Ohlins 5. I guess what I really want to know is this: I realize that all suspension designs want the same things… as per your article “how to make a suspension system that (1) absorbs bumps, (2) isn’t affected by braking, and (3) lets you pedal uphill without wanting to kill yourself?”. Whether it’s worth it really comes down to your individual situation and preferences. Mountain Bike Deals, Copyright 2021 Blue Spruce Ventures LLC | My understanding is it’s basically a dw-link, but one of the pivots is cleverly placed at the rear dropout, which is split. Full suspension bikes are also always mountain bikes. En ajoutant un point de pivot entre le porte-moyeu et la jambe de force, les … (Ellsworth dealer here has demo bikes…but don’t want to purchase based on that alone without considering other designs). generally not true :) Pivot Mach 5.7 drives shock directly with rear triangle. Pardon my lengthy messages. An in-depth explanation of each concept would get quite long, but here’s a quick rundown of what’s out there and the pros and cons of each. one swings backward while the other swings forward). Ce type de suspension est surtout utilisée pour les versions sportives de berlines traction ayant à la base une suspension de type pseudo-MacPherson. Since I haven’t ridden an Ellsworth, I can’t really say if their design offers any substantial improvement over an FSR link, or any other design for that matter.

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